The Before the RZA’s
RZA released his first solo album, three years ago, Wu-Tang Clan fans hoped
it might reveal the secrets of the seminal 90s rap crew’s head producer
and de facto leader. But instead of insights from the mastermind, Bobby Digital
in Stereo offered some of the most confounding music and rawest rhymes yet
heard from Staten Island–or anywhere else. A modest success by rap-celebrity
standards, the album broke with both hiphop’s mainstream and hardcore in
its concern with comic-book-inspired fantasy instead of reality or even "reality."
second album in character as neighborhood superhero Bobby Digital was released
on Aug. 28. A significantly less challenging listen than its predecessor, Digital
Bullet builds on RZA’s intentional conflation of hiphop’s identity
crisis with his own. Interviewed via telephone, the RZA discussed the album,
Wu-Tang’s place in history, numerology and the poetic truth of hiphop fiction.
when Wu-Tang came into the industry, we changed the whole game. Especially from
an East Coast point of view. I think that, also, we built up the first family
structure in the industry. Instead of coming in for solo deals, everybody going
for themselves, being selfish, it caused people to kinda like bring your community
with you. Wu-Tang, we brought all of Staten Island with us.
the period ’94-’96 you got a lot deeper, producing the first five
Wu-Tang solo albums yourself. How do feel when you hear those in 2001?
are like manuscripts. They education. I’m not even gonna act like they
not… You’re in check. Pardon me. You’re not in check.
a good student in formal school, or just in outside learning?
Nah, I was
a great student in school, but I never showed the fuck up. Unless I was trying
to get some girls to come home with me and play hooky, nahmean?
That brings us to Bobby Digital.
is the way I view shit described and explained. So you hear me talking about
"Domestic Violence," or I got a song where I say, "Come into
my lab half drunk." On the new album you got songs like "Brooklyn
Babies," "Glock-A-Pop," "Domestic Violence 2," "Shady"–all
you hear is me talking about maybe getting high, maybe getting some guns, some
pussy, but then towards the end of the album, what happens?
says, "Hold on, man. This shit ain’t right," and he goes from
Bobby to Prince Rakeem. Then from Prince Rakeem came RZA, ya nahmean? Basically,
it’s like I zigzag. That’s why my name is the RZA. I was Prince Rakeem
Allah. But I zigzagged. I went all different angles in life. I had to add a
‘z’ to my name.
to ask you about the switch at the end of the album, because it seemed to me
that Bobby was your vehicle to express the side of yourself that’s not
so thoughtful, so when it switches that’s…
getting ready for the RZA album The Cure, which I promised everybody
anyway. I promised that album to my fans.
been talking about it since 1996.
well-written though! As a matter of fact, I just wrote two new songs for it.
One I wrote while I was in Europe. I think I’ma call it "Heavenly."
It’s crazy. It’s a real beautiful song. I’ll give you an idea
of what kind of verse it is. It says stuff like, "Who gave the woman her
tasteful saliva?/Who gave the vagina its fibers/And caused men the lustful urge
to be inside her?/But they try to play with the ribonucleic acid/And
grab their fatherless bastards born in plastic test tubes/Trapped in a cesspool/But
now it’s Allah Akbar to the rescue/Since the first atom moved out of darkness/Allah
know if you can catch that right there. But it’s saying, "How the
sun be shining/And light striking at perfect timing/Hitting mountains/But stuck
in deep enough that stones capture that light and make it into diamonds."
So that’s how I’m on it with that.
I got the
idea that by doing another Bobby Digital album, you were sending a message that
the first one sold well enough, as opposed to the idea that only going multi-platinum
is a success.
[Bobby Digital in Stereo] did well. Domestically they shipped out about
700 or 800 thousand units. Gold album. This one…I put a few songs on there
I think could help it go platinum. I gave it a song like "La Rhumba."
It’s for girls and shit–especially my Spanish girls. So I had to add
that in. There are only Spanish girls on tv this summer, matter of fact.
I just saw
Do The Right Thing again on cable last night. I was looking at Rosie
Perez, sorta the first one.
that? Oh shit. The ice cube scene, that was great… I think it’s gonna
be deep for you, son, when I make this move right here… I’ma try and
get this checkmate here real quick.
One of the
young gods up here.
at the label office?
W. 37th St. 36 Chambers.
to ask you about the ways that Bobby is a hero. I notice that he’s a nonconformist,
so he’s kind of a reminder of the days when being into hiphop made someone
a little weird.
also, if you take a close listen, you’ll hear like on the song "Show
Your Love," you’ll kinda see what his mission is. "We interrupt
this program to bring you a special bulletin/Bob Digital located inside the
hood again." I’m back in the hood now, and my album is what gets me
back there. "He was last seen helping a crack fiend to detox"… That’s
mate. So I got checkmate on that move, too.
to enlighten people from his experience, really. While most things move forward,
I went backwards. When we deal with digital, we dealing with the linear, a binary
unit, just ones and zeroes. If you look at mathematics it’s the same thing.
When you get to nine you add that one to it and you’re back at 10. Back
at the same one and zero.
saying positive and negative, RZA and Bobby, you can get anywhere?
If you forget
the positive, which is the one to the right of the zero on the number line,
and forget the negative, the one to the left of the zero, and just focus on
the zero, you’re focusing on the truth. If you look at history, they didn’t
know about zero in Roman and Greek times. When the Romans got to 10 they used
an ‘X.’ It was unknown. When Europeans went to the Crusade wars, with
Prince Saladin and all that, back in 1198 and earlier, that’s when they
found out about zero.
the Arabs, who dealt with mathematics. They got the science of the zero: no
beginning and no ending. The Earth ain’t flat. It’s only when you
step outside the zero, to the left or the right of it, that you can get a number.
Other than that it’s all in the zero, because that’s all it’s
gonna add up to. You can count positive one, positive two, positive three–by
the time you get to 10, what happens? The one goes back behind the zero again.
you get this stuff?
common sense right there. That came from understanding mathematics and taking
a look at it in the life-form, instead of as a piece of paper with numbers.
Look at it for life, and try to understand the meaning of what religion is,
or God, Allah. All. That’s why they say Allah, because to get "Allah"
you gotta first spell "All." "All" is contained within that
name. That’s why they never translate "Allah" into no other language.
"all" a different word in Arabic?
in English. Nahmean?
"Allah" is an acronym for arm, leg, leg, arm, head.
that’s meant to work in English?
the beauty of mathematics. What seems coincidental ain’t no coincidence.
I can give you over 50 things that may seem coincidental. Like there’s
64 squares on the chessboard, right?
many codons in your DNA?
Why is that? Why in mitosis and meiosis does a cell split into 64 different
cells? What happened in 1964? I could go on. It all seems coincidental. I don’t
think anything happens by chance or coincidence. I think some force makes it
happen, whether you know it or not. You don’t know why it rain, but there’s
a reason. So I come back and go, "Why why why why why." I’ll
give you a little insight: in mathematics, seven is considered God, right? "G"
for God, the seventh letter…
good in craps, too.
thing, haha. Check out this, though. "Y" is the 25th letter; two and
ultimate answer to "Why?" is what? God.
So you go,
"Okay, that’s cool." I’ll give you another one. The Y chromosome
is the smallest chromosome. It’s only found in man. And God made man in
His image. Now you go, "Why?" And I say, "That’s why."
of stuff do you read?
now I’m studying DNA, so that’s why I came with that right there.
talk about the sound of Digital Bullet. It’s kind of dark and gloomy.
Some songs are pretty minimal, but "Thirsty" and "Be a Man"
are tracks with a lot of complications. What kind of things do you listen for
in your own work, to decide if you’re going to use it or not?
for music that builds my adrenaline. "Thirsty" builds my adrenaline–it
hits you like, "Baaaaaaa!" It makes you frown!
not the same adrenaline as like a Ruff Ryders track, that rah-rah feeling.
different adrenaline. It’s more like an endorphin come out your head or
the feeling you want a listener to get?
I want them
to get a feeling of the things I been through in my life, and to see that I
sound the way I sound because of the roughness in my life. But then [I want
them to] see the beauty of my music. A song like "Shady," or "The
Righteous Way" with Junior Reid, or "Build Strong," you can hear
that there’s also some beauty in my life. So I want the listeners to absorb
me and realize the transformation I made in my life. I came from boy to man.
From sperm to baby, from baby to man. I want people to really feel that, and
feel hiphop as undescribable.
something very strange…
you could tell from those beats I’m making that hiphop is–some people
are making hiphop like r&b right now. Like it all belongs in one pot right
now. But when you listen to my shit it’s like, "Oh man. Who the fuck
put the beans in the rice?" Ya nahmean? With coconut milk. "What kind
of dish is this?"
the strangeness in hiphop? Where does it come from?
really put a word on it, but if I had to guess I’d say the unpredictability
of it. It’s like–I can’t give you a good simile right now. It’s
unpredictable. Though it may seem at times that there’s a format to it,
there is no format.
To me it’s
like a UFO. I get the sense that something is arriving, and it’s big.
with you. It’s like you know it’s of Earth, but you feel like it’s
heavenly! It seems like it’s more than that. Especially when you get a
good artist to give you a display of it.
will perform Weds., Aug. 29, at S.O.B.’s, 204 Varick St. (Houston St.),