a couple of hit singles ("Hush the Crowd," "Braggin’ Writes")
in the mid-90s. His long-delayed first full-length, The Best Part (Seven
Heads), is the most engrossing underground rap album since MF Doom’s Operation:
Doomsday. J-Live has made believers out of many a naysaying crowd with his
mic and DJ skills (he can cut and rhyme simultaneously), but writing might actually
be his strongest suit. On The Best Part and the new All of the Above
(Coup D’Etat), he weighs in on rap culture’s big issues in a way De
La Soul or Big Daddy Kane might if they were young today. Forthright, grounded
and wittily on-point, his offstage demeanor is gentle and kind.
This interview Let’s Grew up in So "Braggin’ Albany is only When The You have to Where did you Central Park And after college It’s middle I wondered I watched a How did it It’s the Did they have You gotta understand I wonder what There’s I think a lot I don’t Partially, The machinery We had to ask Toni: I’m Your son’s That’s What’s Toni: DJ Cip So he knows Toni: Vast I saw Vast Toni: Are you Um, I’d Toni: Those They’re Toni: I’m Bye Toni! Wow. Small world. How do you The underground Do you think That kind of Last question: Everything Did you really No, I’d
took place at Buffa’s diner in Soho. Toni, who joins our conversation,
is a waitress well known to me from when New York Press had its
offices in the nearby Puck Bldg.
get a quick bio.
Manhattan, on the Upper East Side, 96th St. Went to school up in Albany, then
moved to Brooklyn. I stayed in Bed-Stuy for a minute. I was teaching in Brownsville,
took a year off to try and put a record out, it didn’t come out. Then I
was teaching in Bushwick, now I’m taking another year off, trying to put
another record out.
Writes" came out while you were in college?
three hours away, so after the record dropped and it got really successful,
we’d do shows in the States and even overseas on the weekends. I’d
be in Japan performing and then studying for midterms on the way home.
Best Part was just a bunch of bootlegged tracks [the original release was
shelved during the Polygram merger], it joined a long list of legendary "lost"
consider the most tragic example to be the album we don’t even know about.
Mike Tyson used to say that the greatest boxer on Earth is someone you’re
never going to see, because he’s either in jail or just going through something
now where he can’t apply his talent. That kind of thing happens every day.
I know a lot of MCs who don’t have the opportunity to put their stuff on
record…but a situation like mine, the only thing that was missing was the
official release. Everybody heard the record, everybody loved the record. That
was the best part. That’s part of why I called it The Best Part.
go to high school?
East, up on 106th and Madison. You know that building with the Graffiti Wall
of Fame? There was an alternative school there at the time. My classes were
like 15 people, 20 at the most. We called our teachers by their first names.
It was like Sarah Lawrence College, but a high school. A handful of kids there
went to Sarah Lawrence and were like, "It’s just like high school!"
you taught seventh- and eighth-grade English in Brooklyn. What was that like?
school. They’re too old to be young and too young to be old. They got hormones
popping all over the place. Especially seventh grade–in the beginning of
the year, the boys are like, "Eww, girls." And by the end of the year
they’re like, "Aha, girls." So you watch the transformation from
September to June. It’s ill. For me it’s the best year to teach because
you get to give them whatever the teachers missed in elementary school. You
make sure they have it and are prepared for high school. I loved it. When I
get older I’d like to teach high school and get kids ready for college,
but right now, only being 26, I don’t want to go into a high school classroom
and have students who are anywhere near my age, because I relate to them that
much. Especially with the music. It’d be kind of hard for a high school
kid to see me as a grown-ass man. I watch cartoons, still, so right now I’m
cool with teaching junior high school.
if hearing the way high school kids talk about hiphop influenced the skit with
the hecklers on All of the Above.
lot of The Muppet Show back in the day, so that’s just something
I wanted to do. When I was teaching it was all about Dragonball Z, Pokemon.
I like Dragonball Z, but for the most part the cartoons they have now
are nothing like we had. I feel for them. It’s the same with the music.
Like, "This is what you have to listen to? You poor thing!"
play out, you being an MC English teacher?
same thing onstage or in a classroom. You have to have a plan, you have to have
a show. You have to be able to freestyle. You have to be the master of the ceremony
in the classroom, and you have to teach onstage.
any idea of your place in hiphop?
that ages 12-18 are pretty much locked in by the commercial market–"Rap
City" and the Hot 97s of the world. And I have yet to break into those
markets. So they’re not up on me like that. I wouldn’t tell them I
was an MC until the end of the year. I would DJ their parties and stuff, so
they knew I was up on things. We’d teach poetry and I’d bring in rap
lyrics. They’d try to write rap lyrics and turn them in, and I’d have
to be like, "Noooo." So being able to relate to them in that sense,
where every little thing that they try and snap on, I know where it’s from
and can teach them about it. That was a beautiful thing. But I was in the Source
two years before they started reading the Source.
they’d think. Your style is modern, but you use those swinging mid-tempos
that kids today think are played out.
what’s out now, and there’s what influenced us over the years. I consider
myself a combination of the two. I didn’t coin the phrase "True School,"
but I’m kind of dominating it right now. When you hear the ethics and the
integrity and the craftsmanship of the older stuff, and yet you also hear how
hiphop is relevant today–that’s what I try to do. Making stuff that’s
timeless. You rarely see me with a punchline that refers to a current event.
Because five years from now, when you play it, it’s not going to make any
sense. So I try to focus on what is true and will be true. Or on issues that
are important now and will be important later, so the music has some staying
of rappers who love old-school spend too much energy complaining about the mainstream
or wishing it away, and…they get caught up in trying to recreate it instead
of applying the essence of it to what’s new. That’s just as dangerous.
People talk about the split between commercial and underground: you have people
who are out the gate trying to be commercial, and you also have people trying
to be so underground that you can barely understand what they’re saying.
It’s a waste of talent in both cases. If you just did what you wanted to
do in the first place, and marketed yourself after you went through the creative
process, you might end up making the next commercial sound.
hear as many new ideas in independent-label rap as I did in the 90s. Do you
think that’s just because the mainstream finally got better?
yeah. The mainstream plucked the best of the underground and ran with it: the
Commons, the Mos Defs, the Roots. It’s the same way with class warfare.
They kind of cheat the middle class, so there’s only high class and low
class. That’s kind of what’s going on in hiphop. People are advocating
this split between commercial and underground, when there’s really just
dope hiphop and wack hiphop. They say, "Well, wack hiphop is just rap."
No, it’s wack hiphop. Bad art isn’t just painting. It’s bad art.
of the music industry is geared against artists trying to just make a living.
ourselves, myself and my management, "Do you want to go into that machine,
or do you want to go off the beaten path?" That’s what I decided to
do. I’d rather sell records myself and make more off of them than get 12
to 16 points from a major label and take two years to recoup.
eavesdropping because my son is the scratcher for Cannibal Ox.
dope! Let me see if I have a record for him…
One, on Def Jux.
is always in my house, are you kidding me? Vast and Vordul, they’re like
my other sons.
in Pittsburgh a couple months ago. I see Vast all the time.
doing S.O.B.’s with them?
like to, can you ask them?
kids are my kids! They made the top-20 singles in Spin, God bless them.
blowing up right now. That’s another example of hiphop’s middle class,
a hiphop mom. Blockhead from Aesop Rock, I was serving him for years, never
knew he makes Aesop’s beats. It’s a small world. [Walks away rapping
lines from Cannibal Ox’s "Iron Galaxy"] "And if there’s
crack in the basement/Crackheads stand adjacent."
feel about performing to the downtown crowd?
audience isn’t just middle class, lately, but suburban. I’ve always
been a lot more popular in the L.E.S. than in Harlem, even though I’m from
closer to Harlem. That’s just the way it is. I’m not mad about that.
It’s not like I could say, "Don’t listen to my record,"
or something stupid. I’m not Timbaland. I love it. I have my core fanbase
and I recognize them. I thank them for keeping me around for this long, and
when I make music I keep them in mind first. But I really need for my students
to hear my music on Hot 97 and to see it on B.E.T. Not so much for the commercial
success, but because they need that contrast in the market right now. If everything
is so blatantly ignorant, and hiphop shapes your worldview–because that’s
the kind of music that it is… I grew up on BDP and Brand Nubian, they’re
growing up on what they’re growing up on. If there’s no contrast,
then they’re going to suffer.
that hiphop has, on the whole, made America a better or a worse place for black
question is the reason the album is called All of the Above. You can’t
really take a question like that and break it down into a positive or a negative.
Hiphop has been a hindrance, and it’s given a lot of people opportunity.
It’s more like what people decide to do with hiphop. My grandma used to
say, "You can’t fight ignorance." If you shoot an ignorant person
they’ll be dead and ignorant. Put ’em through school, they’ll
be educated and ignorant. Love ’em, they’ll be loved and ignorant.
If you approach hiphop in an ignorant fashion, you’re going to put something
out that’s ignorant. That’s what happens when you ignore the obvious.
If it’s obvious that you have to give everyone respect regardless of their
background, and if it’s obvious that you have to treat women the way you
want your sisters or your daughters to be treated, and if it’s obvious
that you have a beautiful music that can be self-contained in its business–if
all these are obvious and you ignore them, that’s ignore-ance. That’s
all ignorance is.
What are you listening to these days?
from Masekela to, um, Masta Killa.
just make that up?
been thinking about that for a while. I’ve actually been listening to my
own album a lot. I just like it.
Grew up in
Albany is only
You have to
Where did you
And after college
I watched a
How did it
Did they have
You gotta understand
I wonder what
I think a lot
We had to ask
Toni: DJ Cip
So he knows
I saw Vast
Toni: Are you
Bye Toni! Wow.
How do you
Do you think
That kind of
Did you really