Q&A with Beatminerz Mr. Walt and Evil Dee

The Beatminerz were underground in the 90s, but now that all the shallow pop-rap of that decade is fading from memory and the young generation of fans zeroes in on the heavy stuff, the crew's hiphop-history status looks assured. The five-man production team defined the sound of Brooklyn hardcore with Black Moon's 1993 debut, Enta Da Stage, and upped the ante with Smif-N-Wessun's Dah Shinin' two years later. After those came music for Heltah Skeltah and the rest of the Duck Down Records roster, and many oft-imitated singles, like 1997's "Change," by Beatminer Chocolate Ty's group, Shadez of Brooklyn.

On July 31, Rawkus will release the first true Beatminerz album?a wall-to-wall banger featuring rhymes by most of the above, plus Diamond, Talib Kweli, Last Emperor and the duos of Jayo Felony with Ras Kass, Heather B. with Freddie Foxxx, Pete Rock with Caron Wheeler and Apani B. Fly MC with What What. The title is Brace 4 Impak.

In digging for older Beatminerz tracks, look for the name "Dewgarde" in the credits. It indicates work by Mr. Walt and Evil Dee, the brothers who form the group's core. Walt assembled the Beatminerz, recruiting DJs Ty and Rich Blak from their shared neighborhood, Bushwick, and Baby Paul from Queens, where Walt worked at the record store Music Factory. (Q-Tip on A Tribe Called Quest's "What?"?"What's Music Factory without Mr. Walt?") Walt imagined the Beatminerz as an almost faceless conglomerate, sharing all credit under the group name. "I like the backseat," he says.

Evil Dee is an official member of Black Moon, so having his photo on their albums made his the face of the Beatminerz by default. Even without that, he'd be the voice of the crew, thanks to the inimitable shout-out style perfected on his mixtapes. His sound was preserved for posterity by Rawkus, who had Dee mix the first Soundbombing comp. Evil Dee also did the Beatminerz radio show for the now-departed Pseudo online network.

Yet it was Dee who played the backseat in our interview, letting his brother have most of the say. Walt is 33, medium-sized with thick designer glasses and an oldest-sibling's air of confident authority. Dee, 30, is a big dred. This interview took place on the fire escape outside the Rawkus office, with Dee on the window sill because he doesn't like heights.

What was Bushwick like while you were growing up? Evil Dee: It was R.T.D. Rough, tough and dangerous.

Mr. Walt: That's good, I like that!

Two-parent family? MW: Yup.

ED: We had four parents.

MW: Pop started the record collection. Eventually he and my mother broke up?you can say our mother raised us.

Musical household? Both: Yup.

MW: First record that started my collection: Diana Ross Presents the Jackson 5. From there on, I just kept getting records, kept getting records.

ED: Ex-actly.

What are your early hiphop memories? ED: Block parties!

MW: Block parties, and then in the 80s my moms let me go to a couple of shows.

I was wondering about how kids in Brooklyn found out about what was going on in the Bronx during the early days. MW: We always had someone in the neighborhood going to the Bronx, then coming back and telling us stories?

ED: ?or bringing tapes!

MW: That's how hiphop traveled, through homemade tapes?Cold Crush tapes, Grandmaster Flash tapes. People would come back from uptown with these tapes and we would be so amazed by what they were doing, oh my God.

Walt, you're the older brother, so I suppose you were the first to get a system and start deejaying. MW: Yup, I was the first DJ, and he eventually came in. Not only am I his older brother, I'm the oldest one of the whole Beatminerz crew. When I started doing things, all the other kids were like, "Yo, I wanna do that." That's how it started happening.

You began training acolytes, like a black belt? MW: Yeah, you know, "Do that, don't do this." Everybody got into their own, but we were trying to form a group of DJs who had the same ideas that we had about what was going on in the game.

Like what? MW: I just thought that when you're digging for beats through records [you should] try to find the most obscure thing. It's okay to go mess with a song that somebody used already, but try to do it different! If you have a head to do something totally different, even with a record that everyone's used, but using it so far to the left of center, I'm like, "I want him with us."

Dee, what's your memory of DJ training with Mr. Walt? ED: Basically, I used to come downstairs where Walt had his equipment?I used to come down there when Walt was trying to DJ. He'd be like, "Get outta here!" Moms would be like, "Noooooo! Let him DJ! That's my son!"

MW: I'd be with my friends, like, "C'mon, ma." [high voice] "No, you gonna let my son DJ!" And this guy was the. Worst. DJ.

ED: Oh yeah, in the world.

MW: He's mixing "Double Dutch Bus" with "Let's All Chant" by the Michael Zager Band, and I'm looking at him like, "This is really embarrassing."

ED: [clapping, imitating Mom] "That's my son!"

MW: "Ma! C'mon!"

ED: He didn't want me to touch the equipment, but when Walt would leave, the party began! I'd run downstairs and start practicing. When he came home I'd try to put everything back the way he had it, but he always busted me.

How did you hook up with the other guys in Black Moon? ED: Me and 5 Ft. went to high school together. I was producing a talent show and 5 Ft. was like, "I wanna be in it, but I'ma bring my homeboy with me." That's how I met Buckshot.

What did you think when you met him? ED: Buckshot came to my house, first thing he said to me was, "Damn! You got a lotta records!"

MW: I was like, "This guy is a thief!" I remember throwing a barbecue. This guy walks into the house, looks at my equipment. I'm looking at him like, "Who the hell let this dude into the house, and why is he looking at the equipment like he's trying to figure out which pieces will fit in his bag?" Come to find out, that's Buckshot. Later that day he was dancing all over the place...

How about Smif-N-Wessun? More neighborhood characters? ED: They were Buckshot's peeps.

MW: Yeah, but they came in the door when we came in the door. Beatminerz, Buckshot, Tek and Steele [aka Smif-N-Wessun, aka Da Cocoa Brovaz] all came in at the same time.

Help me sort out the image from the reality with those guys. You two come across, to me, like musicians, but would those two, if I met them? ED: We're musicians, but that's not all we are. Beatminerz make beats, yeah, but Beatminerz also means we'll beat your ass if you need it.

MW: We don't go looking for problems. The same goes for Tek and Steele. We've gotten into beefs in different cities, and they were always there by our side.

Dah Shinin' is very artful, but it's also about being a career criminal. MW: That's what they knew about. That's what they know. Some people were raised on criminology. They made music from it, and it became something that people liked.

What did you guys do to make that record so effective? Nothing else sounds like it even a little. ED: That's our minds.

MW: I don't even know what it was. I thought we were just making beats, but everybody was like, "Yo, what are you guys doing?" That record is my personal favorite, to this day.

Mine too. MW: Everybody loves Dah Shinin'.

You hear that a lot? Both: Oh yeah.

Are all the basslines on Dah Shinin' sampled, or what? MW: We used to filter a lot of basslines. We used to filter the hell out of them, and alter all the samples. Whenever someone caught on to what we were doing, we would try something different. With "Sound Bwoy Bureill," we chopped the bassline. For the record "Headz Ain't Redee," which was a Black Moon/Smif-N-Wessun track for the New Jersey Drive soundtrack, we tried something different. I had to keep moving.

You're talking about methods of cutting up sampled basslines to make new basslines? MW: Exactly.

During the two years after Dah Shinin' came out, Tupac and Biggie were murdered, and a lot of people were ready to blame hardcore hiphop records. MW: Aaah, it had nothing to do with records. It was a crazy time. With those two passing, suddenly beefs were squashed, people were being friendly?"I love you, man!" Those two were murdered over some senseless stuff. I figure it had nothing to do with the music. Maybe it had something to do with making records and making money, but it had nothing to do with music.

Did it change the sorts of opportunities available to you in the industry? MW: No, c'mon man. Eminem makes shit that's worse than both of those guys put together. Have you listened to that D12 album? Jesus Christ.

Which are your favorite Beatminerz tracks from the late 90s? MW: The thing that stays in my head is Rah Digga's "Tight."

ED: Our remix of D'Angelo's "Brown Sugar" is one of my favorites.

I've never even heard that. MW: In America you just can't get it. In Japan it's gigantic.

ED: I like the remix of the Roots' "Silent Treatment." I used water. If you listen to the record, you can hear water pouring.

MW: I really like "Headz Ain't Redee." I love Shadez of Brooklyn, "When It Rains It Pours." That beat is so incredible. Rich Blak did that one. That man is dangerous.

What kind of name recognition do you guys get, say, when you travel, or meet people outside the industry? ED: "I remember you!"

MW: "Wow, what are you guys doing now?" Whaddya mean?! We're still making records!

ED: "You smoke crack?"

Have you had to work day jobs at all? Both: Nah.

MW: We must not be making enough records if you think we're working day jobs.

Well, name some recent ones. MW: We did an Afu joint. Mark Morrison, "Return of the Mack" [a remix]. The Eminem song on Soundbombing 2. The first song on the Black Star album, "8th Light."

That's you? MW: Yeeeeah. You know what it is? We're the hidden producers. I love when people say, "I love that song! I didn't even know it was you!" I don't want to be typecast. When you have one sound, that can lead to a very quick death.

What else you got in the works? MW: I can't tell you that!

ED: We're doing a Huey Lewis and the News album.

MW: I can tell you we're working on the Naughty by Nature album. We're going to work with Black Moon and Cocoa Brovaz again. A Shadez of Brooklyn record?more like a Billy Flames album, then the Shadez album. Another Beatminerz album.

ED: The Mr. Walt solo album, Glasses. That's gonna be kinda hot.

MW: [ignoring Dee] Oh, the Last Emperor album, we got songs on there if Rawkus doesn't pull them.

What about the outtakes from Brace 4 Impak? I heard about an M.O.P. track and a Ghostface track that aren't on the final version... MW: Pay attention! They might show up somewhere.

Who do want to work with that you haven't yet? Both: Redman.

MW: Our schedules have just never met up.

Have you guys been to Japan? MW: We was on tour last year?I was John Lennon, he was Paul! It was crazy. Let me tell you something, you can tape a radio show off Hot 97, bring it to Japan and sell it.

ED: I brought 1000 mix tapes, sold out in two days. Walt had special-edition beat tapes, sold 100 in an hour.

Did kids dance at your shows? ED: No, they watched us.

MW: He had to warn me about that.

ED: Out there everything stops and they watch you. I told Walt, "Don't think that they don't like us. They just want to see what you're doing, check out your skills." It's beautiful, I think. People taking time out to watch and listen, that's respect.

MW: When we showed up in a club just for fun, kids would go home, get every Beatminerz record they had and bring them back for us to sign. Every club we went to, that happened.

How did rap get to be about styles that sound played out after 10 minutes? ED: Records are being cranked out now. It's not like home-cooked meals. You're getting fast food.

MW: A lot of people forgot that this is a 9-to-5 job. I get up at 8 in the morning so I can start working at 9 and slow down at 6 or 7.

ED: I'm more lazy, but I still get the job done.

You're 4-in-the-morning, night before due-date? ED: Yeah. I like working under pressure. I can crank something out right in the studio.

MW: I've only seen two producers do that in my life: him and DJ Premier. They go in the studio and make the beat right there.

Where do you make yours? MW: In my house! I'm the prepared one. I come in done.

ED: If you do the beat at the studio, it's your beat. No one heard it, it's your original beat. If Walt does it at home, he's gonna do two or three beats.

MW: He don't give you room to play with.

ED: I'll give you one beat, but it'll be a banger. You'll be like this [makes scrunched-up face, bangs head], and that's it.