Lesson: When Protesting Carriage Horses Try to Remain Calm

Written by on . Posted in Opinion Our Town, Opinion West Side Spirit, Our Town, West Side Spirit.

By Rebecca Cohen

Mostly I push “Yes” on my keyboard all the time to support liberal progressive causes from the comfort of my swivel office-chair. My advocacy for human and animal rights has largely consisted of signing “Yes, I agree.” “Yes, I stand with you!” on such petitions.

In the past two years, there have been 18 accidents involving horse-drawn carriages, many injuries and several deaths. So why is it so hard to end this archaic form of so-called amusement? The carriage industry has a strong union which, along with stubborn politicians including Christine Quinn and Mayor Bloomberg, says the carriage rides are good for the all-important tourism industry. But, of course, it is also a form of animal cruelty.

NYClass, an animal advocacy organization (the acronym stands for New Yorkers for Clean, Livable and Safe Streets), has proposed a plan that is tourist-friendly, helps carriage drivers keep their jobs, and uses clean energy. It suggests these horses be humanely retired and replaced with vintage electric cars. Makes sense to me.

In December, I met NYClass and fellow protesters at 59th Street and Sixth Avenue. The Trump-lined street was teeming with tourists interested in carriage rides through the park. While we protested by holding signs and posters of horses down from accidents, I was taunted, mocked and cursed out by an angry horse driver.

“Oh, the poor horseys,” he called out to me. That alone was a bit shocking, but he continued by calling me a crude name for female genitalia. Really? Did he just call me that? Who does that? Feeling helpless and provoked like a 12-year-old being bullied, I retorted by giving him the finger. The fortysomething, amply built man then challenged me with what he thought was a clincher of a question.

“Name me three breeds of horses—go ahead, name me three breeds of horses!” he yelled. I shouted back, “No, I can’t, but can you tell me the names of the last three horses that died while pulling tourists?” Again he replied, “Oh, the poor horseys!”

By then, rip-roaring mad, I called him a different body part and walked away. I am not proud of this. I probably should have been more mature and controlled.

Well, you don’t have to put yourself at risk of being cursed out by a carriage driver, although it was instructive to join the fight. If you would like to help put an end to this abusive practice, check out NYClass’s website, www.ny-class.org, and push “Yes, I support retiring the horse-drawn carriages and replacing them with humane, sustainable electric vintage-replica tour cars proposed in the NYC Council bill, Intro 86A.”

And if you do decide to join them on their next outing, they have a calendar full of events. Hey, you may meet Kathy Najimy or Alec Baldwin or Lea Michele or Miley Cyrus’ sister Noah, or any number of stars who also think this industry is just downright mean.

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  • Joan

    Bravo to you, Rebecca for sticking up for the horses.

    • cate

      She’s NOT sticking up for horses – she’s spreading vicious lies and should educate herself about horses and those who work with them. Take a tour of the carriage horse stables, talk with the drivers like a mature adult.

    • felixthecat

      Bravo to Rebecca.

  • Della Girl

    “18 accidents in 2 years, many injuries and several DEATHS”?! Name your sources, please.

  • http://twitter.com/TheBarnRules LauraMcFarlandTaylor

    There have been three carriage horses that have died as a result of collisions with traffic in the past 30 (that’s THIRTY) years: Chester (1985), Tony (1990) and Spotty (2006). There have been roughly a half dozen other carriage horses who have died while at work in the past 30 (that’s THIRTY) years – most notably Charlie who died of unknown causes in October 2011 (http://tinyurl.com/cwplyk2), Smoothie in 2007 (from head trauma and shock after spooking into a tree due to a snare drum), Juliet in 2007 (colic), Jackie in 1999 (electrocution thanks to
    ConEd and stray voltage).

    I am in no way minimizing the death of any horse, but this is a remarkable record. There is no other riding discipline that can come close – NONE.

    The fact of the matter is that the anti-horse crusade has nothing to do with
    the horses – it’s all about money and real estate: http://thebarnrules.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/18/

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrea.whiting1 Andrea Whiting

    Rebecca Cohen, do you realize that Steve Nislick the founder of NYCLASS has horses that participate in a sport called Eventing? Eventing is one of the most dangerous horse sports and is also called the most dangerous sport in all of the Olympics. More horses have died in the last year on the Eventing field than have died in the NY city streets pulling carriages in 30 years.

    Steve Nislick is a hyppocrite that is not interested in saving horses, he is only interested in getting them banned so he can get the real estate,

    As for the carriage drivers being rude and crude, imagine that for the last 8 years every day on your job you were harassed, called a murderer, an abuser, had people protesting your business, had people trying to prevent you from making a living and taking food off of your table, rent money from your pocket, and threatening to seize your property and force you to rent someone else’s property in order to conduct your business? Carriage drivers have been assaulted and harassed, does NYCLASS or the other anti-carriage groups tell you about tell you about the arrests for assault on carriage drivers? NYCLASS even digitally removed one member from their photos after she was arrested for assult on a carriage driver.

    None of these people (the carriage drivers) want to rent or drive those ugly cars. They are in the business because they love horses. We should all be so lucky to be able to earn our livings at something we love…without having protesters.

    The facts are that these horses are well cared for. The ASPCA mandates that they are vetted, shod on a regular schedule, have their teeth attended to annually, have mandatory 5 week vacation at pasture (most horses have more than 5 weeks as most carriage owners have more than one horse and they rotate them in and out of the city). They have a low impact job that consists mostly of standing around waiting for a ride and snoozing between fares.

    They have stalls they can lie down in. have automatic waterers,fans and misters in their stalls in the summer, have sprinkler systems that are regularly inspected by officials, stalls are rubber matted, they are bedded on soft straw or shavings, they are excersized regularly.

    A lot of the propaganda that you see is specifically geared towards people like you that “can’t name three horse breeds” and are completely ignorant about horses. The propaganda spinners just LOVE the be able to sway the non-horse person who loves animals because they know that you think in terms of cats and dogs and can make incorrect conclusions easily. The anti people make big deals out of trips, slips and more.

    Spilled grain on the street with pigeons? Spilled grain is an every day occurance in anybody’s barn. My horses spill grain in the barn and my chickens eat it. They spill grain in the field and the wild turkeys and sandhill cranes eat it.

    A horse stands funny, so it must have an orthopedic issue…. No, horses stand that way all the time, they have a mechanism that locks their stifle joints so they can sleep standing.

    A horse has a trickle of blood in his nose so he apparently is in distress from all of the car fumes…..No, horses do this all the time, one big snort can sometimes burst a capillary in their nostril, actually common in dry weather. I have horses that do this and they are NOT in the streets.

    They live nose to tailpipe…..actually if you look at statistics on the American Lung Association’s website, the air quality in NYC is cleaner than the air in Lancaster, PA (Amish country).

    The poor horses are forced to work at night in Times Square with all the lights and glare…..actually horse eyes are very well adapted for dealing with lights and glare, nature gave them horizontal pupils and something called a corpora nigra above the pupil to counteract glare.

    If you go to any of the facebook pages for the anti carriage groups, you will even see that they delete questions and ban the people that ask questions or disagree with them. They are not open to any kind of dialogue, just …….zap….you are gone from their page. If you go to the Carriage Horse Facts facebook page, you are free to ask questions, they are open to dialogue as long as it is not rude.

    by the way, I have no relation to any carriage horse owner, driver or anyone in the business. I have horses, live on a farm in Florida and see the carriage horses in NY every chance I get when I go to visit relatives in the city. I am an outsider to the industry but I am an educated horse person. My family and I own 11 horses on my farm and I care for a total of anywhere between 25 and 30 horses every day of my life.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrea.whiting1 Andrea Whiting

    Here you go Rebecca, here is one of Steve Nislick’s horses:
    http://www.jennifermorse.com/Horses.html

    Now here are some statistics on Eventing in which he participates:

    http://eventing.zzn.com/?coname=eventing

    http://olympics.time.com/2012/07/28/equestrian-eventing-the-olympics-most-dangerous-sport/
    Now….do you REALLY think Nislick and NYCLASS are about the horses? This is what HE competes in and puts HIS horses through.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

    Rebecca, perhaps you should get out of the swivel chair and do a bit of your own research before blindly agreeing with whatever nonsense comes down the internet at you.
    By your own admission you can’t name three breeds of horses, but you are confident you know an abused horse from a healthy, cared for horse because NYCLASS says it must be so. Frankly, you have no business in this discussion until you can, on both counts, at the VERY least. If you want to be an activist on this subject perhaps you can start with this; how is a car, any car, of any kind, more environmentally friendly than a horse? No one has yet been able to explain this to me, probably because it’s a ridiculous notion. By the way, pictures you see of those much glorified cars are no more than a scale model at this point. They don’t have so much as the beginnings of a working model.
    I won’t go into statistics that have already been stated here by others. You are doing no favors by blindly inflating “petition” numbers while having no accurate knowledge or understanding of what you are agreeing with. If you are going to be an activist go beyond your chair and find out what both sides have to say, not just what “the liberal side” claims is so.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

    Oh, by the way, what an excellent reason to join a cause. “I might meet a celeb, how exciting…”

  • Lynnwood

    “In the past two years, there have been 18 accidents involving horse-drawn carriages, many injuries and several deaths. ”

    Please sight your sources and provide factual representation for those claims. You are embellishing and publishing incorrect and purposefully inflated information.

  • Candace

    OHHHH, how I long for the days when one actually had to know something to opine on a topic and be perceived as credible. Instead, any simpleton with a keyboard and an overabundance of handwringing, anthropomorhic “thinking” can spin whatever fanciful crap they want and they have a willing audience. Meh.

  • felixthecat
  • http://twitter.com/TheBarnRules LauraMcFarlandTaylor

    Interesting – not one follow up post that speaks to the alleged “accidents’, “injuries”, or “deaths.” Only rehashing of a driver’s inappropriate comments, which is interesting since one of NYnoCLASS’s supporters, Alec Baldwin, called a carriage driver a “faggot” inside City Hall. He apologized and all was forgiven. But let’s not forget that that was not the only time he has used anti-gay slurs (http://tinyurl.com/7ojbzyu). And yet he is welcomed by the anti-carriage horse crowd with open arms.

    Another protestor, Roxanne Delgado, was arrested on August 18, 2012, for assaulting a
    carriage driver and was charged the following day with three counts of assault
    and one count of harassment (http://tinyurl.com/9kmx7sv and http://tinyurl.com/9mh7r9q).

    But, please, let’s get back to the allegations of “accidents’, “injuries”, or “deaths.” Post your sources – and I mean real ones, not the “because I said so” ones.

  • Lee

    Andrea, I cant even finish reading what you wrote, They love their horses. You’re kidding right? They love the $$ they make them. If they loved them they wouldn’t have to be told to bring them in when it is too hot. They wouldn’t ride them in midtown traffic. The fact that you can’t see this, is the problem in this world. Make money by working your back, not an animal’s back. Oh, and their stalls are in brick building where they have to walk up ramps to get to. No grass, no grazing, no romping in the fields. Anyone making money by working an animal in surroundings unnatural to them is sick. Get in Andrea!

  • Lee

    oh, and i see these horses day in and day out and see the truth. you in Florida who visits once a year for a day, know nothing of what goes on.

  • Tom Hillgardner

    With all due respect you need to get a grip. You are emotional about this issue and it is clouding your judgment. Your problem starts with assumptions you make that are not well-founded such as that carriage rides inherently are “a form of animal cruelty.” I don’t accept that and don’t duck your burden to substantiate this claim. Also, Google anthropomorphism. You are projecting human feelings onto animals. I suggest you do what the carriage driver suggested and get yourself better informed about horses. Not one of these animals struggles or strains to pull these carriages. It is well within their ability to perform these tasks with ease. So check yourself before continuing with this cause. Remember, NYCLASS is really just a front for real estate developers looking to secure the horse stables on the super-hot West Side, and I strongly disagree that ridding New York City of carriage horses is a “liberal, progressive cause” as it actually constitutes the un-greening of the city to get rid of horses and to replace them with glorified automobiles.

  • felixthecat

    Posting lies again. No driver was assaulted and instead drivers are working off the books. One driver from Clinton park stable was deported. It’s all corrupt. Fraud.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

      Don’t bother denying it Roxanne, it’s too well documented. You did, in fact, assault a carriage driver with sufficient force to have charges pressed against you. Charges that are still pending in court. We will be watching for your sentence with great anticipation.

  • felixthecat

    Owner caught bribing dept of investigation undercover. Carriage drivers caught over loading carriages. Carriage drivers caught working horses despite suspension. Carriage driver caught working undocumented and not paying taxes. Drivers caught overcharging tourists. These drivers are the worst in this city. All the industry does is post slander such as lauramcfarkandtaylor from LexisNexis. Non stop posting by her not iif the horses but personal false slander to intimidate. But it work work. All is monitored and it is well documented that this deranged LexisNexis editor in in cohorts with carriage industry. Not to talk about the horses but to harass and suppress opposition. It will backfire. All they can do is blog links to their stupid blogs with false slander. But there are videos of the abuse and video of the drivers calling activists niggers and dykes for holding signs. This driver was from Clinton stable. The same stable of driver Who was deported. Clinton stable seems to be in the forefront in all the personal attacks and unlawful attacks. Very dirty corrupt business. The Feds needs to get involved.

  • felixthecat
  • http://twitter.com/TheBarnRules LauraMcFarlandTaylor

    Felix, aka Roxanne: nice try.

    • felixthecat

      Wrong again. Does LexisNexis know how deranged you are?

  • felixthecat

    watch?v=vbdLORPcMnY&feature=share&list=UUmypjYQsLtHwadAARaOQWRQ

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrea.whiting1 Andrea Whiting

    Lee, you do not know how often or for how long I am in NYC. You “see” these horses daily but what do you really know about horses?
    As for the carriage drivers losing their cool and saying derogatory things, it is wrong, but I don’t blame them given the harassment they receive. If someone was calling me a murderer and animal abuser and other derogatory things, I would probably tell them to f*ck off. I think most of the carriage drivers show a lot of restraint and unfortunately the anti carriage people know who has a short fuse and they harass them more because they want to film the driver “snap” and they it all over the place.
    The link to the tread coming off the carriage tire is heartbreaking to watch. The person that took hold of the horse should be arrested. I feel for the poor carriage driver. There are two videos in this confrontation and the woman was going to pick up the tread that came off the tire and an unknown bystander seized control of her horse and nearly caused an accident. He later then tried to steal the tire from her and the police were right there and made him return it. He and the vidographer held her there hostage for the police to come, why? She did nothing wrong. The carriage is still functionable without the tread, it is not at all like a car tire it is only a cushion and it muffles the sound of the rim on the asphalt. That poor driver was treated horribly.
    As for the horses not getting daily turnout, the ones I have seen are all well adjusted and do not show signs of stress. I am looking out a the horses in my pasture now. They are not running around, they are not grazing. They have 8 acres to roam and instead they are standing by the gate, hind leg cocked, heads down and they are sleeping. They spend many hours a day like this and I see it on the carriage horses too – they rest and snooze between rides which is indicative of a relaxed horse, not a stressed one.. My horses do not normally run around unless I make them. People that don’t know horses think that horses spend hours running and frolicking and that is not the case.
    By the way, one of the horses in my 8 acre pasture is a rescue from slaughter and the one that is with her is her daughter that she was carrying when she was on the slaughter truck. I got a bit of a surprise four months after I rescued the mare. My rescue mare was a carriage horse too, but she pulled 40 miles a day for the Amish at a trot on the Pennsylvania highways. She got turnout on their farm but this poor horse had a misrable life and has the scarred up legs, face and body to show for it and also shows the mental issues that came from her prior life. They dumped her at the New Holland auction when she was 21 years old and pregnant and Bruce Rotz the kill buyer had her on the truck. I know what an abused, overworked, mentally damaged horse is like…..the Carriage horses in NYC are fine.

  • felixthecat

    These industry is corrupt and cruel. These are facts. Horses in the hands if drivers from Clinton that assault people and call people homophobic and racists names. And it’s all on video. unlike their slander written on a blog by the industry and their mouthpiece Laura from LexisNexus.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/horsesinnyc

    And they think they will bully people into silence. Doubt it.

  • felixthecat

    All on video these drivers overcharging and breaking the laws non stop. And if you try to videotape them they attack you physically and verbally.

    Call you nigger and dyke and strike you. These are the drivers from Clinton Park Stables.

    But the truth has no fear so sick it horse abusers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrea.whiting1 Andrea Whiting

    Just an FYI, Felixthecat is Roxanne Delgado who crrently has charges pending for assaulting a carriage driver. She is the one that NYCLASS digitally removed from their photos afterwards so they could distance themselves from her particular brand of crazy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino
  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino

    I wonder how Andrea Whiting owner of Arbordale Riding Academy located in FL. has so much misinformation. Did Laura Taylor from LexisNexis or Eva Hugh from Clinton Park Stables instruct her to post slander on their behalf?

    • http://twitter.com/TheBarnRules LauraMcFarlandTaylor

      Roxanne, you really need to read the definition of “slander”. I think you mean “libel”. In any event, truth is an absolute defense to both. I provided links to proof that you were arrested and charged with attacking a carriage driver. So, again, nice try.

  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino
  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino
  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0F2B8BC614643E20

    Over 4 passengers in the carriages. Overburdening the poor carriages

  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino

    Personal attacks? A false charge of Assault? LOL. More serious charges are the illegal hiring by Clinton parks stable and tax evasion. That is a serious crime and hopefully under investigation

    • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

      You consider hiring an illegal worker,(if they did) a more serious crime than a physical assault? You need to straighten put your priorities. And as previously stated, the assault charge and subsequent order of protection against you are a matter of public r

  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-carriage-drivers-racist-and-homophobic-outburst-startles-NYC—VIDEO-162843886.html

    One of Clinton finest driver Paul calling a few ladies niggers and dykes. And he is available for tours. Just call clinton park stables to schedule a ride with him.

    http://www.ajnfineart.com/clintonsbl.htm

  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino

    time for gym,but keeping posting your slander. Your slander is false and reprinted on your lame blogs. Eventually Eva will be held accountable if she doesn’t have a stroke before then. How that lady moves is beyond physics.

  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino
  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.pellegrino.5201 Laura Pellegrino
  • Cioma

    Hey guys — the people posting in the comments section are from the horse carriage industry. They harass folks on line every time an article comes out. Pay no attention to them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

      Well, there’s the pot calling the kettle black…

      • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

        Here’s a thought, stop printing the same old mis and disinformation and the procarriage side can stop trying to correct it with accurate information.

    • http://twitter.com/TheBarnRules LauraMcFarlandTaylor

      I am not from the carriage industry either.

      Here’s an idea – how about posting facts that refute the facts that we have posted? Oh, wait. That’s right. You don’t have any.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrea.whiting1 Andrea Whiting

    Cioma, I am not from the carriage industry. And I would like to thank Laura Pellegrino aka Roxanne for stalking my FB page and putting harassing comments about me and calling me an abuser too, and making statements to my customers.
    That is how the Radical Animal Rights Activists work, they HARASS. She doesn’t know me, but that does not matter, I disagree with her so apparently “I” am a :bad person.”
    As for her denying her arrest for assault, it is public record so there is no slander or libel by any of us referencing it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

    Rebecca Cohen, I’m sure you have been following all this. What are your thoughts? Are you going to digg deeper, drop the whole business, go back to your office c chair? How has all this interaction influenced you? I would really like to know.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

      So, Rebecca, no response? In fact, I haven’t seen any comments from you at any point in this discussion (unless you are using an AKA). No comments on facts, accusations, or information. Not only nothing further about the carriage trade, but real estate and the links regarding the much more hazardous interest in eventing. So, I guess I can only assume you intended to start a firestorm and leave, which, from the little I know about you (from your own statements), seems to be your style.
      Do us all a favor. Just stay safely in your swivel chair, stop pushing those buttons, ignore the realities, and be no earthly use to either side of any cause.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001251933549 Bob Pomilla

    The electric cars are years away from materializing, if ever. Bill de Blasio has promised to eliminate the carriages, if elected mayor. While not opposed to the cars, de Blasio would grant immediate relief to the horses, independent of the cars. Also, the drivers have made it clear that they have no interest in switching over to the cars. Car proponent, NYClass founder, Steve Nislick, has held fund raisers for and bundled donations for, in her quest to become NYC mayor, the number one obstacle in this city, to getting the horses relieved of their burdens, Christine Quinn. Four or eight years of Quinn in Gracie Mansion, is four or eight more years of the horses on the streets. The only viable shot at getting rid of the carriages, is by electing Bill de Blasio mayor.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

      You’re right, despite copious fund raising the much touted electric cars are no more than a scale model (still) It would be interesting to see an accounting of what all those funds have been poured into by now. Despite de Blasio’s claims, I doubt that any elected official has the power to ban a thriving, privately owned business on his first day in office. De Blasio’s position doesn’t seem to have helped him much as he is currently well down in the polls. The NYC carriage horses need no relief, they are content and well cared for, as stated by equine expert Buck Branaman in his book “The Far Away Horses”. As to the rest of your statement, you really need to learn to better proof read your material as it is mostly uninteligible.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

      You’re right, despite copious fund raising the much touted electric cars are no more than a scale model (still) It would be interesting to see an accounting of what all those funds have been poured into by now. Despite de Blasio’s claims, I doubt that any elected official has the power to ban a thriving, privately owned business on his first day in office. De Blasio’s position doesn’t seem to have helped him much as he is currently well down in the polls. The NYC carriage horses need no relief, they are content and well cared for, as stated by equine expert Buck Branaman in his book “The Far Away Horses”. As to the rest of your statement, you really need to learn to better proof read your material as it is mostly uninteligible.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bobbie.isham Bobbie Isham

      You’re right, despite copious fund raising, the much touted electric cars are no more than a scale model (still). It would be interesting to see an accounting of where all those funds have been put up to now. I doubt that any elected official has the power to ban a legal, thriving, privately owned business on their first day in office as de Blasio has promised, and his position on the issue has not helped him much as he is currently well down in the polls. The NYC carriage horses need no relief. According to equine expert Buck Branaman, they are well cared for and content, as stated in his book “The Far Away Horses” As for the rest of your statement, you really need to learn to better proof read your work. Some of it is unintelligible.

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